DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
> [..]
>>

Oh well, you may as well say goodbye to top up t.V then.

"Ad" <graphi47uk> wrote in message
news:ft5e
> DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
> >
http://www.dtg.org.uk/news/news.php?...ass=193&id=846
>
> Oh well, you may as well say goodbye to top up t.V then.
>> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 0518-1, 02/05/2005
> Tested on: 04/05/2005 10:33:22
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
> [..]
>>
If ITV bought Top-Up TV, they would no doubt rename it to either ITV
Digital or OnDigital :-o/
Regards Mike.

If they do I think I free card valid for the length of your unused
subscription at the time of closure should be sent to all former ITV
Digital customers.

Personally I think the government should not allow ITV to purchase TopUp
TV. ITV's shrewd lawyers have already got ITV out of paying ITV
Digitals debt, which were caused by there own management incompetence,
when ITV as a whole had sufficient funds. Purchasing TopUp TV would
after a short while put ITV close to where they were before OnDigital
closed without the debt.

Malcolm

<me> wrote in message news:0hk1
> If they do I think I free card valid for the length of your unused
> subscription at the time of closure should be sent to all former ITV
> Digital customers.
>
> Personally I think the government should not allow ITV to purchase TopUp
> TV. ITV's shrewd lawyers have already got ITV out of paying ITV
> Digitals debt, which were caused by there own management incompetence,
> when ITV as a whole had sufficient funds. Purchasing TopUp TV would
> after a short while put ITV close to where they were before OnDigital
> closed without the debt.
>
> Malcolm

If could also mean the end of "freeview" in the true sense. ITV could start
using Top-UP TV as a "pay per view" supplier, moving special programs for
which advertising dosn't cover the cost to recover extra revenue.

John Russell wrote:

> If could also mean the end of "freeview" in the true sense. ITV could start
> using Top-UP TV as a "pay per view" supplier, moving special programs for
> which advertising dosn't cover the cost to recover extra revenue.

As I said when ITV bought SDN I reckon they'll have a longer term
strategy to migrate as much of their own FTA content off their own plex
onto freeview space. If they manage to move ITV 1/2/3/News on to other
Muxes (and I appreciate it might take time as they'll need to acquire
space as slots come up for rewal) they then end up with 1 1/2 QAM 64
multiplexes to use for limited CA.

What they chose to do with that CA would be interesting....

John Russell wrote:
> <me> wrote in message news:0hk1
>>
> If could also mean the end of "freeview" in the true sense. ITV could start
> using Top-UP TV as a "pay per view" supplier, moving special programs for
> which advertising dosn't cover the cost to recover extra revenue.
>Or it could be that ITV are eyeing-up the extra capacity, either to
provide more ITV channels or to sell-on some/all of the bandwidth to
newcommers. Strength in numbers springs to mind here.


Clem

"DAB sounds worse than FM" <dab.is> wrote:

>[..]

Notice that Freeview is "non-terrestrial", and that's the DTG!

Seems that TopUp TV is "digital terrestrial", in the link below, though.

http://www.dtg.org.uk/news/news.php?id=830

Anthony said the following on 2005-05-04 17:10:
>>If could also mean the end of "freeview" in the true sense. ITV could start
>>using Top-UP TV as a "pay per view" supplier, moving special programs for
>>which advertising dosn't cover the cost to recover extra revenue.
>> As I said when ITV bought SDN I reckon they'll have a longer term
> strategy to migrate as much of their own FTA content off their own plex
> onto freeview space. If they manage to move ITV 1/2/3/News on to other
> Muxes (and I appreciate it might take time as they'll need to acquire
> space as slots come up for rewal) they then end up with 1 1/2 QAM 64
> multiplexes to use for limited CA.
>
> What they chose to do with that CA would be interesting....

The new multiplex they have aquired is pay TV allowable anyway (as it is
full of pay TV!) so by moving ITV-1 et al to it would gain ITV nothing.

ITV have turned out to be one of the biggest benefactors of ITV Digital
going tits up, with ITV 2 and ITV 3 being the 6th and 7th most watched
channels in Freeview homes. (BBC ONE, ITV 1, Five, BBC TWO, Channel 4
being the top 5)

Also as ITV have an obligation to ensure ITV-1 has universal coverage
they would be unable to move that channel - and would be stupid to
compromise the coverage of there other channels. With ITV also
converting some of there satellite channels to FTA broadcasts it implies
that ITV arn't interested in pay TV (if they can't make a pay tv
platform work with 5 multiplexes what chance would ITV have with 1 and a
bit?)

Buying Top Up TV MAY just be a cheap way to simply buy more capacity
(six extra slots) on Freeview in the longer term to allow further ITV
channels to launch on the platform, especially useful if they want to
have interactive services like those provided by the BBC.

Kev

Kev wrote:

> The new multiplex they have aquired is pay TV allowable anyway (as it is
> full of pay TV!) so by moving ITV-1 et al to it would gain ITV nothing.

On the contrary, move their FTA channels of their own mux and they have
the ability to launch CA channels in the bandwidth. Why "waste" CA slots
with FTA channels? Much better to move them on to Freeserve where the
licence won't allow them to use CA.

[snip]

> Also as ITV have an obligation to ensure ITV-1 has universal coverage
> they would be unable to move that channel - and would be stupid to
> compromise the coverage of there other channels. With ITV also
> converting some of there satellite channels to FTA broadcasts it implies
> that ITV arn't interested in pay TV (if they can't make a pay tv
> platform work with 5 multiplexes what chance would ITV have with 1 and a
> bit?)

Under their analogue licence unless I'm mistaken - and anyway some of
the freeserve mux space provides identical coverage to their own - in
fact at QAM 16 you could argue it's better!

TUTV are making it pay (and yes I know they've not yet hit breakeven,
but they're ahead of their business plan and making it pay regardless of
what many here would like to happen) - ITVD failed because it tried to
use the same business model as Sky but with lower technology and limited
bandwidth. Find the audience, develop the content and pay TV is viable
on DTT.

> Buying Top Up TV MAY just be a cheap way to simply buy more capacity
> (six extra slots) on Freeview in the longer term to allow further ITV
> channels to launch on the platform, especially useful if they want to
> have interactive services like those provided by the BBC.

Maybe yes, but I still fancy more CA if they can find the programme mix
to sell.

Anthony said the following on 2005-05-04 21:21:
>>The new multiplex they have aquired is pay TV allowable anyway (as it is
>>full of pay TV!) so by moving ITV-1 et al to it would gain ITV nothing.
> On the contrary, move their FTA channels of their own mux and they have
> the ability to launch CA channels in the bandwidth. Why "waste" CA slots
> with FTA channels? Much better to move them on to Freeserve where the
> licence won't allow them to use CA.

Both the multiplexes ITV own (half of Mux 2 and all of A) allow Pay TV
anyway, and carry pay TV.

>>Also as ITV have an obligation to ensure ITV-1 has universal coverage
>>they would be unable to move that channel - and would be stupid to
>>compromise the coverage of there other channels. With ITV also
>>converting some of there satellite channels to FTA broadcasts it implies
>>that ITV arn't interested in pay TV (if they can't make a pay tv
>>platform work with 5 multiplexes what chance would ITV have with 1 and a
>>bit?)
> Under their analogue licence unless I'm mistaken - and anyway some of
> the freeview mux space provides identical coverage to their own - in
> fact at QAM 16 you could argue it's better!

They may do in the interim, but after switch over the two non-BBC
Freeview multiplexes will only be broadcast from a maximum of 200 sites,
compared with 1,100 sites that the prime BBC and ITV multiplexes and one
of there secondary multiplexes (either BBC or ITV will get two).

Basically by moving ITV1 et al to Multiplex C or D will result in it
having Channel 5 style coverage, yet all the BBC stations, Channel 4 et
al will get much much better coverage.

>>Buying Top Up TV MAY just be a cheap way to simply buy more capacity
>>(six extra slots) on Freeview in the longer term to allow further ITV
>>channels to launch on the platform, especially useful if they want to
>>have interactive services like those provided by the BBC.
> Maybe yes, but I still fancy more CA if they can find the programme mix
> to sell.

The big question is, would ITV want to be involved in yet another pay TV
operation seeing has both they have been involved in (ITV Digital in the
UK (Granada and Carlton) and Queireo in Spain (Carlton)) have gone bust,
and that they have been a successful FTA operation (especially with ITV2
and ITV3)

Kev wrote:

> They may do in the interim, but after switch over the two non-BBC
> Freeview multiplexes will only be broadcast from a maximum of 200 sites,
> compared with 1,100 sites that the prime BBC and ITV multiplexes and one
> of there secondary multiplexes (either BBC or ITV will get two).
>
> Basically by moving ITV1 et al to Multiplex C or D will result in it
> having Channel 5 style coverage, yet all the BBC stations, Channel 4 et
> al will get much much better coverage.

[snip]

> The big question is, would ITV want to be involved in yet another pay TV
> operation seeing has both they have been involved in (ITV Digital in the
> UK (Granada and Carlton) and Queireo in Spain (Carlton)) have gone bust,
> and that they have been a successful FTA operation (especially with ITV2
> and ITV3)

I agree, these two comments are telling. The question is around ITVs
long game - do they want to remain "public service universal" or do they
want to move away from it in to pay tv land - or indeed a mix with ITV 1
remaining on their own mux but others being hived off - I guess it
depends on the return of having ITV2 on their home mux versus the income
from using that slot for a pay tv channel to a wider audience.

I can see arguments both ways. I guess my main point was that ITV have
options sooner rather than later if they acquire TUTV, and they can plan
to move stuff around as and when they feel the commericals support it.

My thought is that if freeview does the sales grunt and over the next
few years boxes are routinely sold with slots ITV has the option to use
the potential customer base to start to think differently about *some*
content.

For example test cricket or golf might become viable to ITV if they can
offer them via CA on DTT as it's fairly limited in terms of the
bandwidth it needs (compared to say Premiership football) and could be
accomodated. Of course that's assuming their is an appetite amongst
freeview customers to subscribe, and I agree it's very possible that, by
their nature, they wouldn't.

Interesting choices for Mr Allen :-)

Mike GW8IJT wrote:

>>
>
> If ITV bought Top-Up TV, they would no doubt rename it to either ITV
> Digital or OnDigital :-o/

I think that would be a bad mistake.
I think if ITV got hold of Top up, they should keep it quiet

Since when is ITV3 on Freeview "non-terrestrial"? I do not have cable or
satellite reception, yet can get ITV3!

On Wed, 04 May 2005 17:55:29 GMT, Dave Farrance
<DaveFarrance> wrote:

>"DAB sounds worse than FM" <dab.is> wrote:
>
>>[..]
>
>Notice that Freeview is "non-terrestrial", and that's the DTG!

Not quite. The article is attributed to "Lovelacemedia".
[..]