On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:29:20 -0600 (MDT), Fred Z <fredz>
wrote:

>Charles Ellson wrote:
>> >
>> >back in 2002 when i got sky+ with multiroom sky asked me if they could
>> >collect viewing habit data via the phone line, i told them to get stuffed
>> >but will probably never know if they do or not..
>> >
>> If they asked you then I doubt if they went ahead without permission
>> as that would invite various forms of trouble. Presumably it would
>> have involved something amounting to applying a charge at nil rate to
>> anything watched so that the billing software filled in the otherwise
>> blank spaces between chargeable events.
>
>Isn't it one of those dodgy "opt-out" things in the fine print?
>
You didn't keep your copy ?

In <08605e1922899508a1f9a410212994c1>, Fred Z
<fredz> wrote:
>> >I noticed the engineer hooking it up to my phone socket, but
>> >I've never seen any mysterious calls on my phone bills. Is
>> >this how they snoop on my viewing record?
>>
>> They don't snoop, unless there is a massive conspiracy going on.
>
>They do keep "viewing habits" information

Keep? No, not even collected. Let alone kept, and uploaded via modems to
Sky.

Unless of course you know different in which case please provide a link to
an authoritative source...

>and use it for marketing, don't they?

No.

You might be confused with TiVo's data collection which used to log every
keypress on the remote and aggregate it anonymously across those customers
who had consciously opted in to this system. Having all those hard stats
allows them to produce reports for the broadcasters like this:
http://www.brandcurve.com/most-tivod...rcial-e-trade/

and this:
http://sonyvaio-cnet.com.com/2100-1041_3-5152141.html

However, when TiVo launched in the UK they couldn't sell this to any of
the broadcasters: they just weren't interested in data like this (which is
surprising, perhaps they wanted too much money for it) so even though the
UK TiVo software has all this stuff it isn't used. (I had opted in, but a
few years ago the status screen of my TiVo switched to saying "opted out"
which is presumably when they closed down the UK office)

>> Nothing will stop working. It's a contractual, not a technical,
>> requirement - but if you have Multiroom, it is used to check that both
>> boxes are at the same location using caller ID. Ie it's used to enforce
>> the contract. Again not a technical requirement. Software upgrades are
>> always via satellite.
>
>I don't have Multiroom or buy any premium channels or shows. If I
>unplug the phone connection, will Sky eventually cancel me or give me
>trouble, or will they not care?

If *they* installed it, then contractually you should plug it in for the
first year - otherwise unplug it. You can also get away with plugging it
in overnight once a month to let it phone home. Sky won't just cut you
off, they'd send warning letters first.

HTH

"Fred Z" <fredz> wrote in message
news:40b0
> Charles Ellson wrote:
>
> Does that mean if I don't use pay-per-view, premium channels or
> Multiroom, I can unplug it and get away with it?
>
I you want to know the legal position, you will need to read the small
print of your contract - which might be different from the latest T&Cs.
You will find a copy of the current T&Cs at
http://www.sky.com/portal/site/skyco.../skyplus/terms.

The following sentence applies to "FREE" (i.e. subsidised)
installations: "Sky/Sky+/Sky+ HD box must be connected to a fixed
telephone line for 12 months."

For Multiroom, the T&Cs stipulate that "Boxes that receive your first
and Multiroom subscription(s) must all be connected to the same fixed
telephone line at all times". Note the words "At all times". Sky
definitely monitor compliance for Multiroom subscriptions and for
persistent non-compliance, they will charge the cost of two separate
subscriptions.

With regard to all other types of receiver (without Multiroom), I have
never heard of any instance, where Sky have monitored the telephone
connection during the first twelve months. However, Sky engineers will
not complete a new installation without a working telephone connection.
In practice there is nothing to prevent a subscriber from unplugging the
telephone connection, as soon as the installer has departed.

Incidentally, other contributors to this newsgroup have reported
instances where Sky refused to pair a viewing card to a new or
replacement box that was not connected to a working telephone line.

> For Multiroom, the T&Cs stipulate that "Boxes that receive your first and
> Multiroom subscription(s) must all be connected to the same fixed
> telephone line at all times". Note the words "At all times". Sky
> definitely monitor compliance for Multiroom subscriptions and for
> persistent non-compliance, they will charge the cost of two separate
> subscriptions.
>
> With regard to all other types of receiver (without Multiroom), I have
> never heard of any instance, where Sky have monitored the telephone
> connection during the first twelve months. However, Sky engineers will
> not complete a new installation without a working telephone connection. In
> practice there is nothing to prevent a subscriber from unplugging the
> telephone connection, as soon as the installer has departed.
>
> Incidentally, other contributors to this newsgroup have reported instances
> where Sky refused to pair a viewing card to a new or replacement box that
> was not connected to a working telephone line.



As I've renovated our house I've removed all the surface phone sockets for
which the cables were clipped to the walls and skirtings. I've replaced them
with only three flush mounted phone sockets, all with cabling buried in the
walls. None of these sockets need to be in the lounge, so when I upgraded to
Sky + I ran a phone extension lead from a socket in another room to the back
of the TV. When the Sky fitter left I unplugged it and rolled it up.

"Doctor D" <david> wrote in message
news:nz2d
>>
>> As I've renovated our house I've removed all the surface phone sockets
> for which the cables were clipped to the walls and skirtings. I've
> replaced them with only three flush mounted phone sockets, all with
> cabling buried in the walls. None of these sockets need to be in the
> lounge, so when I upgraded to Sky + I ran a phone extension lead from
> a socket in another room to the back of the TV. When the Sky fitter
> left I unplugged it and rolled it up.


Quite !! A temporary telephone connection will suffice, because apart
from Multiroom (or the first 12 months of a subsidised installation),
the T&Cs do not insist upon a permanent connection. Even if the user is
still within the first 12 months of a subsidised installation, Sky do
not appear to monitor this requirement.

There is only one other important aspect to beware.

Sky subscriptions are only available to viewers within the British Isles
(the UK, IOM or Channel Isles) or the Irish Republic. If Sky ask for an
automated telephone call-back (when you perform a new installation or
try to pair a card to a different digibox), they may detect calls that
originate from outside the authorised territories.

Although Sky seem to turn a blind eye to overseas viewers (as indicated
by the number of bars etc that screen Sky Sports on the Costa del Sol
and the Canary Islands), they have no alternative but to disable the
viewing card, if they know it is being used to receive programmes
overseas. Never, ever telephone Sky or initiate a call-back from
outside the authorised territories.

Bob Lucas wrote:
>
> Quite !! A temporary telephone connection will suffice, because apart
> from Multiroom (or the first 12 months of a subsidised installation),
> the T&Cs do not insist upon a permanent connection. Even if the user is
> still within the first 12 months of a subsidised installation, Sky do
> not appear to monitor this requirement.

Why do they put it in the T&Cs?

"Fred Z" <fredz> wrote in message
news:eb6c
> Bob Lucas wrote:
>>
>> Quite !! A temporary telephone connection will suffice, because
>> apart
>> from Multiroom (or the first 12 months of a subsidised installation),
>> the T&Cs do not insist upon a permanent connection. Even if the user
>> is
>> still within the first 12 months of a subsidised installation, Sky do
>> not appear to monitor this requirement.
>
> Why do they put it in the T&Cs?
>>


You should address that question to SKY.

However, at the launch of Sky Digital, Sky promoted the provision of
free or subsidised equipment. In return for the subsidy, the original
agreement:

a) stipulated that the telephone line must remain in place for 12
months ans

b) Sky had the right to collect viewing data (preumably, via the
telephone connection)

I don't know whether Sky did collect viewing data and if so, whether
they do so now. However, that probably explains why that condition is
still in the viewing contract.

The fact remains that I have never heard of any instance, when Sky have
enforced that requirement.

> b) Sky had the right to collect viewing data (preumably, via the
> telephone connection)

And what safeguards are in place as to what they can do
with the information?
For instance can it be sold to marketing firms so that they can
target households according to their viewing habits?
Sky can obviously tie the phone number to a specific address,
whereas if I ask BT who has a specific phone number
(reverse lookup) they won't tell me.
So Sky's database provides reverse lookup for a large part
of the country, Virgin Media has a similar database
covering more, followed by those offering bundled BB
and phone packages.
Is all this information in safe hands???

ato_zee wrote:
>
> And what safeguards are in place as to what they can do
> with the information?
> For instance can it be sold to marketing firms so that they can
> target households according to their viewing habits?
> Sky can obviously tie the phone number to a specific address,
> whereas if I ask BT who has a specific phone number
> (reverse lookup) they won't tell me.
> So Sky's database provides reverse lookup for a large part
> of the country, Virgin Media has a similar database
> covering more, followed by those offering bundled BB
> and phone packages.
> Is all this information in safe hands???

Just be thankfull it's not in the government's hands.

<ato_zee> wrote in message
news:1190
>> And what safeguards are in place as to what they can do
> with the information?
> For instance can it be sold to marketing firms so that they can
> target households according to their viewing habits?
> Sky can obviously tie the phone number to a specific address,
> whereas if I ask BT who has a specific phone number
> (reverse lookup) they won't tell me.
> So Sky's database provides reverse lookup for a large part
> of the country, Virgin Media has a similar database
> covering more, followed by those offering bundled BB
> and phone packages.
> Is all this information in safe hands???


| Is all this information in safe hands???

Your guess is as good as mine.

If you don't want Sky to collect this information, remove the telephone
connection.

Mike Henry wrote:

> In <08605e1922899508a1f9a410212994c1>, Fred Z
> <fredz> wrote:
>
> Keep? No, not even collected. Let alone kept, and uploaded via modems to
> Sky.
>
> Unless of course you know different in which case please provide a link to
> an authoritative source...

Well, if you google "sky viewing habits" you get a lot of hits, SOME
of which are in authortiative sources, suggesting that they record
them!

In <bf88e6f86d6212d2d440c9adca910161>, Fred Z
<fredz> wrote:
>Mike Henry wrote:
>>Well, if you google "sky viewing habits" you get a lot of hits, SOME
>of which are in authortiative sources, suggesting that they record
>them!

Ah. I see that's not a link to an authoritative source. It's you who
claimed it, so you must back it up - inviting others to do your research
for you doesn't count. I'm especially looking forward to learning how and
where normal Digiboxes without hard drives can supposedly collect and
store an entire month's worth of "what channel I was tuned to" data at a
time. Also how the wide statistical gap between what channels were tuned
to, and which programmes were/weren't watched during those periods, is
bridged.

On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:57:10 +0100, Mike Henry
<{$mrtickle$}> wrote:


>>Will it stop
>>working if I unplug the phone line?
>
>Nothing will stop working. It's a contractual, not a technical,
>requirement - but if you have Multiroom, it is used to check that both
>boxes are at the same location using caller ID. Ie it's used to enforce
>the contract. Again not a technical requirement. Software upgrades are
>always via satellite.
>
>HTH

A thought has just crossed my mind - could you install two(or more)
Sky multiroom boxes, located at different addresses and connect them
to VOIP lines and fool the callback function by each using the same
VOIP phone number to call back?

In article <f848b4l3fge31ktc6g7a5ilqkh2rq8chn5>, Mike Henry
<{$mrtickle$}> writes
>In <bf88e6f86d6212d2d440c9adca910161>, Fred Z
><fredz> wrote:
>
>Ah. I see that's not a link to an authoritative source. It's you who
>claimed it, so you must back it up - inviting others to do your research
>for you doesn't count. I'm especially looking forward to learning how and
>where normal Digiboxes without hard drives can supposedly collect and
>store an entire month's worth of "what channel I was tuned to" data at a
>time. Also how the wide statistical gap between what channels were tuned
>to, and which programmes were/weren't watched during those periods, is
>bridged.
>
And how could Sky tell if you switched the TV off but left the Sky box
on all night? They would get such false ready as to be useless.