But poor old St Pancras, already overcrowded, in the frame again (I
suppose they could scrap the Javelin services and run to the north from
that part of the station):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7641094.stm

The proposed 180mph rail link would run between St Pancras in London and
Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds.

The Conservatives hope the line would increase use of the Eurostar,
based at St Pancras, to the continent, and free up the West Coast
Mainline for more commuter journeys.

Journey times would be cut from 125 minutes to 80 minutes from London to
Manchester, and from 55 minutes to 17 minutes between Manchester and
Leeds.

On 29 Sep, 07:16, Roland Perry <rol> wrote:
> But poor old St Pancras, already overcrowded, in the frame again (I
> suppose they could scrap the Javelin services and run to the north from
> that part of the station):
>
> [..]
>
> The proposed 180mph rail link would run between St Pancras in London and
> Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds.
>
> The Conservatives hope the line would increase use of the Eurostar,
> based at St Pancras, to the continent, and free up the West Coast
> Mainline for more commuter journeys.
>
> Journey times would be cut from 125 minutes to 80 minutes from London to
> Manchester, and from 55 minutes to 17 minutes between Manchester and
> Leeds.
> --
> Roland Perry

But unless the link goes from Heathrow it will have virtually no
effect on the passengers who connect from long haul flights to placees
like MAN,LBA etc.

Besides which - They are Tories and I simply don't believe them.

But we will see if they put flesh on the bones we can listen and
learn.

Tony (not Polson)

On 29 Sep, 08:12, TonySK14 <tonys> wrote:
> On 29 Sep, 07:16, Roland Perry <rol> wrote:
>>
>>
>> But unless the link goes from Heathrow it will have virtually no
> effect on the passengers who connect from long haul flights to placees
> like MAN,LBA etc.
>
> Besides which - They are Tories and I simply don't believe them.
>
> But we will see if they put flesh on the bones we can listen and
> learn.
>
> Tony (not Polson)

Besides, has call me Dave told Boris.

What about his White Island in the Thames?

Tony (not Polson)

TonySK14 wrote:

> But unless the link goes from Heathrow it will have virtually no
> effect on the passengers who connect from long haul flights to placees
> like MAN,LBA etc.
>

If (big if) the Wikipedia numbers are right, the vast majority of
passengers at LHR don't transfer, so the whole hub thing is overdone.
MAN has a perfectly good modern international airport, of course.

However, the Tories appear to be taking a cue from Greengauge21, which
includes a link to Heathrow as part of the deal. BAA and TfL are both
on their recently announced Public Interest Group.

Still, it's a positive step to get it this far.

Tom

Am Mon, 29 Sep 2008 06:16:23 UTC, schrieb Roland Perry
<roland> auf uk.railway :

> Journey times would be cut
> from 55 minutes to 17 minutes between Manchester and
> Leeds.

impressive. But no indication whatsoever in that BBC article about
how they would achieve it.


Cheers,
L.W.

On Sep 29, 8:15 am, TonySK14 <tonys> wrote:
>
> Besides, has call me Dave told Boris.

WHAT ??

On 29 Sep, 07:16, Roland Perry <rol> wrote:
> But poor old St Pancras, already overcrowded, in the frame again (I
> suppose they could scrap the Javelin services and run to the north from
> that part of the station):
>
> [..]
>
> The proposed 180mph rail link would run between St Pancras in London and
> Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds.
>
> The Conservatives hope the line would increase use of the Eurostar,
> based at St Pancras, to the continent, and free up the West Coast
> Mainline for more commuter journeys.
>
> Journey times would be cut from 125 minutes to 80 minutes from London to
> Manchester, and from 55 minutes to 17 minutes between Manchester and
> Leeds.
>

Wow, that would appear to be a fairly unequivocal policy commitment
from the Tories - the decision not to allow Heathrow expansion is a
really big one in itself, and as Ms Villiers points out this is a
distinct departure from the attitudes of old of the Conservatives.
Could they now renege on this commitment? I find it difficult to see
how they could. If not expanding Heathrow really does become a
manifesto commitment then I dare say it will prove a vote winner in
certain quarters - both people under the flight path and perhaps a few
'greenies' as well.

Whether the North - South HSL would ever happen is another question,
especially in light of the Crossrail funding concerns. Dare I suggest
that the choice a London terminal is flexible - as others have said
beforehand Euston would appear to be the most appropriate choice.
Though is the mention of St. Pancras perhaps more indicative of a lack
of any real research behind the Tories 'plans' - have they really
grasped the issues an HSL would present (including a potential
plethora of 'nimby' objectors in blue counties)?

Incidentally - before anyone mentions it - I really don't think this
proposal should be read together with Boris's comments about a new
artificial island airport in the Thames estuary - Bozza's comments do
not constitute Tory policy, instead they were more of a pie in the sky
fantasy plan (after all, it's easy to dream up such schemes - it
happens all the time here! - but rather more of a challenge to
actually make them happen).

On 29 Sep, 07:16, Roland Perry <rol> wrote:
> But poor old St Pancras, already overcrowded, in the frame again (I
> suppose they could scrap the Javelin services and run to the north from
> that part of the station):
>
> [..]
>
> The proposed 180mph rail link would run between St Pancras in London and
> Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds.
>
> The Conservatives hope the line would increase use of the Eurostar,
> based at St Pancras, to the continent, and free up the West Coast
> Mainline for more commuter journeys.
>
> Journey times would be cut from 125 minutes to 80 minutes from London to
> Manchester, and from 55 minutes to 17 minutes between Manchester and
> Leeds.

I did wonder whether it would have been better to keep the original St
Pancras, and bring the Eurostar into a new station built between St
Pancras and Kings Cross.

That could be an option for HS2 - there ought to be room for 4
platforms - though all the taxis and support would need to be buried
or raised.

Mizter T wrote:

>
> Incidentally - before anyone mentions it - I really don't think this
> proposal should be read together with Boris's comments about a new
> artificial island airport in the Thames estuary - Bozza's comments do
> not constitute Tory policy, instead they were more of a pie in the sky
> fantasy plan (after all, it's easy to dream up such schemes - it
> happens all the time here! - but rather more of a challenge to
> actually make them happen).

Agreed - the airport plans really come from Deputy Mayor for Policing
Kit Malthouse, who's been involved with aviation before (his budget
airline failed to get off the ground in 2004) and wrote this article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle2925884.ece

which, to me at least, reads like someone who doesn't know what he's
talking about (the cruising speed on the GWML for instance). All the
talking points are identical to the ones Boris came out with last week.

Boris is easily swayed by the enthusiasms of others - don't take it
seriously, they're better at getting stuff in the papers than concrete
into the ground. At least the main party appears to be talking to
someone sensible.

Tom

On 29 Sep, 09:07, Tom Barry <il> wrote:

> Mizter T wrote:
>> Agreed - the airport plans really come from Deputy Mayor for Policing
> Kit Malthouse, who's been involved with aviation before (his budget
> airline failed to get off the ground in 2004) and wrote this article:
>
> [..]...
>
> which, to me at least, reads like someone who doesn't know what he's
> talking about (the cruising speed on the GWML for instance).  All the
> talking points are identical to the ones Boris came out with last week.
>
> Boris is easily swayed by the enthusiasms of others - don't take it
> seriously, they're better at getting stuff in the papers than concrete
> into the ground.  At least the main party appears to be talking to
> someone sensible.
>


Aha, interesting, didn't know about Mr Malthouse's interest in
aviation. I also see that the Times article he penned is linked to
from his own personal website <www.kitmalthouse.com>.

Interesting to ponder whether the Mayor and his advisers knew about
the upcoming announcements at the Tory party conference and thus went
public with their own 'plan' a week beforehand - was this thus an
attempt to upstage the conference announcements, or less
conspiratorially an attempt to throw some of their own (or should that
be Mr Malthouses's own) ideas into the mix for the new grand Tory
transport plans?

In message <+33Oo2E3KH4IFAfk>
Roland Perry <roland> wrote:

> But poor old St Pancras, already overcrowded, in the frame again (I
> suppose they could scrap the Javelin services and run to the north from
> that part of the station):

> [..]

> The proposed 180mph rail link would run between St Pancras in London and
> Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds.

> The Conservatives hope the line would increase use of the Eurostar,
> based at St Pancras, to the continent, and free up the West Coast
> Mainline for more commuter journeys.

> Journey times would be cut from 125 minutes to 80 minutes from London to
> Manchester, and from 55 minutes to 17 minutes between Manchester and
> Leeds.


What are her plans for the Manchester - Leeds leg?

Michael Bell

--

On Sep 29, 8:51 am, TimB <timburf> wrote:
> On Sep 29, 8:15 am, TonySK14 <tonys> wrote:
>>
> > Besides, has call me Dave told Boris.
>
> WHAT ??

Think about it a little longer, then you might get it.

On Sep 29, 7:16�am, Roland Perry <rol> wrote:

> The proposed 180mph rail link would run between St Pancras in London and
> Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds.

180mph, about 40 mph SLOWER than the current world best and we haven't
even started the planning yet. By the time it is built (some hopes)
it will probably be 100mph slower than France, Germany, maybe even
outer Mongolia.

George

TimB wrote:

> On Sep 29, 8:15 am, TonySK14 <tonys> wrote:
>>
>> Besides, has call me Dave told Boris.
>
> WHAT ??

David ("call me 'Dave'") Cameron and Boris ("my name's Boris Johnson;
people call me Boris Johnson") Johnson.

On 29 Sep, 11:13, furnessvale <furnessv> wrote:
> On Sep 29, 7:16 am, Roland Perry <rol> wrote:
>
> > The proposed 180mph rail link would run between St Pancras in London and
> > Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds.
>
> 180mph, about 40 mph SLOWER than the current world best and we haven't
> even started the planning yet.  By the time it is built (some hopes)
> it will probably be 100mph slower than France, Germany, maybe even
> outer Mongolia.
>
180 mph could still do Manchester in 70 minutes, with a stop in
Birmingham. Faster trains use more energy and are therefore bad for
the environment. They also need more spacing and therefore have less
capacity.

Outer Mongolia and France might need it more because the distances are
further.