In uk.rec.sheds, (Rusty_Hinge) wrote in
<3130303032303038490F2B1D77>::

>The message <fEF3UEGqCyDJFwlL>
>from Andrew Marshall <g8bur> contains these words:
>
>/snip/
>
>> >Thing is, there are some allergies (thankfully) that cooking
>> >ameliorates. (Is that the right word?)
>
>> Not sure - I goov it means 'to make better' or 'to improve', which could
>> be said to be a good result of the cooking destroying the allergens.
>
>Means to molish less of - such as less stinging, less harsh, less
>bitter, more Sheddy.

Doesn't. Means "make better", from "melior", Latin for "better".

Those other things are sort-of implied, but not the strict meaning.

On or around Sun, 02 Nov 2008 20:08:06 +0000, Amethyst Deceiver
<spam> enlightened us thusly:

>On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 19:25:21 +0000, Austin Shackles
><austinDITCHTHISFORBETTERRESULTS> wrote:
>
>>
>>I guess it depends on how sensitive you are to the gluten. The chip fryer,
>>if only hfrq for chips, is only going to get batter etc. in small quantity
>>and occasionally, and for the most part, the batter will be removed again.
>
>Er, if the chip fryer is used only for chips, there should be no
>batter at all. Unless your chippy batters its chips. My chippy has two
>fryers - one for chips, one for anything in batter. He had that set-up
>long before people became aware of coeliac.

but does he guarantee that no cross-contam can happen? what if someone
accidentally dunks a fish in batter in the wrong fryer, or some batter
accidentally gets dripped in it? I doubt any chippie would be prepared to
guarantee it absolutely...

>
>Contamination is contamination, though. "Very small amounts" doesn't
>matter.
>>Sensitivity apart, the real problem is gut-wall damage. I don't have
>any sensitivity at all to gluten, so exposure to it will damage my gut
>wall without giving me any symptoms, which is more dangerous in the
>long-term. Because damage to the gut wall leads to decreased
>absorption of nutrients and increased risk of bowel cancer.

yeah, OK, I don't know enough about it. But still, there must be more
effect from more exposure? Granted, you don't want to be exposed any more
than you have to. But will exposure to occasional trace quantities cause
[major|minor|no measurable] damage?

I'm not having a go, here, or being deliberately obtuse. I want to know the
answer. Apart from anything else, I may have one day to cater for one such
as yourself, and it'd be useful to know if it's gonna be a big issue if
*any* gluten at all is present, or that trace amounts are not a problem but
measurable amounts are, say.

e.g.: Suzi informed me ahead of time when I was setting up a birthday bash
for my 40th that not only should there be no Salmon in the buffet, but that
even preparing salmon in the same kitchen was a measurable risk, as Gid has
a severe allergy to same. arFran is the same with various raw fruit, but OK
with cooked fruit.

On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:11:01 +0000, Austin Shackles
<austinDITCHTHISFORBETTERRESULTS> wrote:

>e.g.: Suzi informed me ahead of time when I was setting up a birthday bash
>for my 40th that not only should there be no Salmon in the buffet, but that
>even preparing salmon in the same kitchen was a measurable risk, as Gid has
>a severe allergy to same.

Poor Gid! I'd *hate* to be allergic to salmon!

The message <qhjug4to3d2e2u4heuudop62qlffa1sj2k>
from Countess-Palatine Blackberry the Perplexed of Divine
Intervention.<x{yz}enophil44> contains these words:
> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:11:01 +0000, Austin Shackles
> <austinDITCHTHISFORBETTERRESULTS> wrote:

> >e.g.: Suzi informed me ahead of time when I was setting up a birthday bash
> >for my 40th that not only should there be no Salmon in the buffet, but that
> >even preparing salmon in the same kitchen was a measurable risk, as Gid has
> >a severe allergy to same.

> Poor Gid! I'd *hate* to be allergic to salmon!

MTAAAW. If I want to molish fishcakes, hfhnyyl I bung in a tin of pink
salmon - purnc, and with lots of flavour. That's if - I haven't got /
CBA to get / CBA to prepare - herrings.

The message <qhjug4to3d2e2u4heuudop62qlffa1sj2k>
from Countess-Palatine Blackberry the Perplexed of Divine
Intervention.<x{yz}enophil44> contains these words:

> Poor Gid! I'd *hate* to be allergic to salmon!

Beastly stuff.

The message <3130303032303038490F5EE647>
from Rusty_Hinge <rusty.hinge> contains these words:

> MTAAAW. If I want to molish fishcakes, hfhnyyl I bung in a tin of pink
> salmon - purnc, and with lots of flavour.

Gagh! Smoked mackerel, provided I can stop the kids eating it as I peel it.

The message <3130303034323739490F729852>
from Guy King <guy.king> contains these words:
> The message <3130303032303038490F5EE647>
> from Rusty_Hinge <rusty.hinge> contains these words:

> > MTAAAW. If I want to molish fishcakes, hfhnyyl I bung in a tin of pink
> > salmon - purnc, and with lots of flavour.

> Gagh! Smoked mackerel, provided I can stop the kids eating it as I peel it.

Oh. Lock me freezer then if you and they ever come mooting innit! I must
have half a dozen or more smerked mackerel halves. And I have great
sympathy - sometimes I have to get another one out cos I've scoffed the
first one.

Take a number of smerked mackerel sides. Debone completely and bork into
small pieces.

Weigh.

Add the same weight of butter.

Fresh black pepper and the juice of a lemon per four sides.

Magimix into a creamy paste.

Smerked mackerel paté are ace.

Austin Shackles <austinDITCHTHISFORBETTERRESULTS> wrote:

> >In most chippies the chips are cooked in a different fryer from the
> >fish. Contamination is a risk - certainly my dietitian thinks it might
> >be.

Does your ditetian actually know anything about the Coeliac condition?
We've met a couple over the 16 or so years since my daughter's
diagnosis, and we have yet to meet one who did...

guy.king said...
> The message <3130303032303038490F5EE647>
> from Rusty_Hinge <rusty.hinge> contains these words:
>
> > MTAAAW. If I want to molish fishcakes, hfhnyyl I bung in a tin of pink
> > salmon - purnc, and with lots of flavour.
>
> Gagh! Smoked mackerel, provided I can stop the kids eating it as I peel it.
>
Hang on, what was arRusty doing, hiding away in my kill file?
<kick>
Out you go - you're not welcome in there. It's reserved for arjfrafrf
like MC and MB.

x{yz}enophil44 said...
> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:11:01 +0000, Austin Shackles
> <austinDITCHTHISFORBETTERRESULTS> wrote:
>
> >e.g.: Suzi informed me ahead of time when I was setting up a birthday bash
> >for my 40th that not only should there be no Salmon in the buffet, but that
> >even preparing salmon in the same kitchen was a measurable risk, as Gid has
> >a severe allergy to same.
>
> Poor Gid! I'd *hate* to be allergic to salmon!
>
HWSO is TAAW allergic to salmon, but not to that extent. Allergies are
strange beasts, and extremely inconvenient. 'S not fair.

In message <MPG.237995a513badb10989acf>, Sena
<senacot> writes
>x{yz}enophil44 said...
>> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:11:01 +0000, Austin Shackles
>> <austinDITCHTHISFORBETTERRESULTS> wrote:
>> >e.g.: Suzi informed me ahead of time when I was setting up a birthday bash
>> >for my 40th that not only should there be no Salmon in the buffet, but that
>> >even preparing salmon in the same kitchen was a measurable risk, as Gid has
>> >a severe allergy to same.

>> Poor Gid! I'd *hate* to be allergic to salmon!

>HWSO is TAAW allergic to salmon, but not to that extent. Allergies are
>strange beasts, and extremely inconvenient. 'S not fair.

'S not, innit. I'm allergic to crab, lobster and shellfish, but not to
abezny piscines. My sister Jan, though, is allergic to all fish.

In article <qhjug4to3d2e2u4heuudop62qlffa1sj2k>, Countess-
Palatine Blackberry the Perplexed of Divine Intervention. generously
decided to share with us..

> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:11:01 +0000, Austin Shackles
> <austinDITCHTHISFORBETTERRESULTS> wrote:
>
> >e.g.: Suzi informed me ahead of time when I was setting up a birthday bash
> >for my 40th that not only should there be no Salmon in the buffet, but that
> >even preparing salmon in the same kitchen was a measurable risk, as Gid has
> >a severe allergy to same.
>
> Poor Gid! I'd *hate* to be allergic to salmon!

Alas, not only salmon but the entire salmonid fambly innit.. no salmon,
no trout, no grayling.. *sob*.. I can't even use Swan cigarette papers
as they use a natural glue made from bones, including the bones of
farmed salmon.. and the worst of it is, I *like* salmon.. it's just
that salmon doesn't like me..

Exit, pursued by a fish..

In article <1ipupn4.19nndyr1nvcypsN%robraitxxxxx>,
robraitxxxxx says...
> Austin Shackles <austinDITCHTHISFORBETTERRESULTS> wrote:
>
> > >In most chippies the chips are cooked in a different fryer from the
> > >fish. Contamination is a risk - certainly my dietitian thinks it might
> > >be.
>
> Does your ditetian actually know anything about the Coeliac condition?
> We've met a couple over the 16 or so years since my daughter's
> diagnosis, and we have yet to meet one who did...

I don't think Austin's got a dietitian. My dietitian, on the other hand,
knows a good deal about coeliac.

On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:12:09 -0000, Sena <senacot> wrote:

> x{yz}enophil44 said...
>> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:11:01 +0000, Austin Shackles
>> <austinDITCHTHISFORBETTERRESULTS> wrote:
>>
>> >e.g.: Suzi informed me ahead of time when I was setting up a birthday
>> bash
>> >for my 40th that not only should there be no Salmon in the buffet, but
>> that
>> >even preparing salmon in the same kitchen was a measurable risk, as
>> Gid has
>> >a severe allergy to same.
>>
>> Poor Gid! I'd *hate* to be allergic to salmon!
>>

I trust this doesn't extend to svavatf?

In article <1niug45hvdvo3ik3mtob5td1pjkq3bqb96>,
austinDITCHTHISFORBETTERRESULTS says...
> On or around Sun, 02 Nov 2008 20:08:06 +0000, Amethyst Deceiver
> <spam> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
> but does he guarantee that no cross-contam can happen? what if someone
> accidentally dunks a fish in batter in the wrong fryer, or some batter
> accidentally gets dripped in it? I doubt any chippie would be prepared to
> guarantee it absolutely...

Of course he doesn't guarantee - the only places that guarantee no
cross-contamination are places that have no gluten in them. Like
prescription-grade bakeries. However, he has one fryer for fish and one
for potatoes. The fish products do not cross the potato fryer.

>
> yeah, OK, I don't know enough about it. But still, there must be more
> effect from more exposure? Granted, you don't want to be exposed any more
> than you have to. But will exposure to occasional trace quantities cause
> [major|minor|no measurable] damage?

Of course there's more effect from more exposure. For me, though, the
problem is not that a little exposure is minor/no measurable damage,
it's the fact that I'm asymptomatic. I could have gluten every day and
I'd have no effects until I was at 'needing a blood transfusion' level,
but the gut wall damage would be major by the time I got to to that
level of symptom. So I try not to be very careful about occasional trace
quantities, because I don't know how many occasional trace exposures I'm
actually getting. If I were like a lot of coeliacs, I'd know I'd been
exposed by the effects it would have on my guts. So if I had accidental
(or intentional) exposure, I'd know what to avoid next time by the pain,
bloating and other effects. I don't get that, so I don't know how little
or how much damage I'm getting. And the real thing is that I'm not so
worried about me - I'm willing to have something that might be cross-
contaminated, I'm willing to have a salad made in a sandwich bar (for
instance) - but I'm more risk-averse when it comes to YoungBloke.

> I'm not having a go, here, or being deliberately obtuse. I want to know the
> answer. Apart from anything else, I may have one day to cater for one such
> as yourself, and it'd be useful to know if it's gonna be a big issue if
> *any* gluten at all is present, or that trace amounts are not a problem but
> measurable amounts are, say.

That's mostly it. We tell friends that we'll bring our own butter when
we stay at theirs, for instance, so that there's not a risk of someone
buttering their bread and using the knife again for a second slice of
bread, thus sticking crumbs on the butter when we come along. But we
haven't gone 100% gluten-free in the house. OldBloke is still allowed to
eat "real" cakes and bread, but if he butters his bread from our butter
dish, he has to get another knife if he wants more butter for another
slice of bread. We can't take the filling out of a sandwich to eat,
because it'll be contaminated by the bread, but there's no problem with
the bread being on the same table. Does that make sense?

> e.g.: Suzi informed me ahead of time when I was setting up a birthday bash
> for my 40th that not only should there be no Salmon in the buffet, but that
> even preparing salmon in the same kitchen was a measurable risk, as Gid has
> a severe allergy to same. arFran is the same with various raw fruit, butOK
> with cooked fruit.

You are a good host.